Shiona Baird and Mike Rumbles

Mike Rumbles: The member keeps talking about sustainable business. Does that mean that she is in favour of economic growth?

Shiona Baird: We have always maintained that economic growth is essential, but that it must be sustainable. When I say that, I am referring to the terms of the Brundtland definition of sustainability. If Mike Rumbles looks that up, he will find out exactly what we mean.

Mike Rumbles: Tell us.

Shiona Baird: Does the member not know the Brundtland definition of sustainability? I am sorry. [Interruption.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): You should be finishing now, Ms Baird.

Shiona Baird: It is desperately disappointing that none of those members seems to know the Brundtland definition of sustainability, when the Scottish Parliament is supposed to be mainstreaming sustainability.

Mike Rumbles: The member does not know it.

Shiona Baird: Of course I do. Scotland's future sustainability will rely on the ability of our small businesses to meet the challenges of a world that is scarred by climate change and hampered by resource depletion. In the future, local economies will be more important than national economies. Increasingly, we will turn to small businesses. We must acknowledge that and put in place measures that will ensure their long-term survival.

I will meet Mr Rumbles outside for cup of coffee, when I will tell him what he wants to know.

So, on the off-chance that anyone's interested and if you're not lucky enough to have a coffee date with Ms Baird, the Brundtland definition of sustainability is as follows:

"Sustainable development is development that meets the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs."